Real marriage chapter 2
This chapter starts out with Martin Luther King. It’s actualy a pretty interesting history lesson. Apparently he helped smuggle out 12 nuns becaues they all wanted to get married. All but one of them got Married, and Katherine said “either you find me a husband or you marry me yourself.”
So the former munk and the former nun got married. This was a huge scandal in the day because it was rumored that the anti christ would result form such a union.
Luther grew to love his wife, Katherine, and Mark driscoll talks about how they were best friends. Apparenty
Driscoll (I’m guessing it’s Mark talking here) goes on to talk about how friendship is the biggest part of marriage.
This, incidentaly, is the chapter that sucked my friend Jacob (not his real name) in. He was intruged by the idea of being best friends with your spouse, and hadn’t run across a book yet that talked about it. Unforuantely it got him sucked into other stuff, like wifely submission.
Jacob and I talked about sex waaaaaaay more than is seen as normal on Planet Adventist (I don’t know why; I’m an asexual, and he is very straight, and normally it’s frowned upon to discuss these things in mixed gendered groups.) and he was discussing how marriage should be about frienship first and foremost and that was my first exposure to this book. Jacob owned a copy of Real Marriage, and let me borrow it. Unfortuantely, I was going through my questioning fase, so I couldn’t make it past the first few chapters without giving up and telling Jacob, “I just can’t handle it all right now.”
So that is how I know which parts of this chapter to skim and which to pick up in detail.
Mark and Grace, in preparing this book, read all or part of 187 books on the subject, and not one of them had a chapter on how spouses are supposed to be your best friends.
Mark says that happy marriages are based on a couple’s friendship. Friendship means a desire and respect for each other’s company. He then announces that he and Grace are friends, which seems like a very toxic friendship to me but whatever.
Grace talks about how they were friends when dating, and it strained the friendship that she lied to Mark about the one and only time she ever cheated on him IN HIGH SCHOOL.
Grace says Mark felt he was alone because of the nature of his ministry. Grace would try to be tehre for him but Mark pushed her away and then got upset about it.
And then one day God convinced Mark to let Grace in, and they became friends again. Yay.
Friendship is an integral part of Christian marriage and a safeguard against emotional adultery.
Most marriage books/seminars/sermons only examine the bible verses on marriage, not the bible verses on friendship.
Song of Songs 5:16 This is my beloved, this is my friend.
The word friend needs to be used carefully. Co workers, classmates, and neighbors we hardly know are friends. People we meet on social media sites are not. We are to be friendly toward all people but friends to a few.
Dear god in heaven, I have no friends, then. I agree the word friend should be used more carefully, but people on social media sites can be closer than any IRL people we know, depending.
More talk about how marriage needs to resemble a friendship. Friends give without expecting to take, etc.
Mark and Grace Drizz-Cull like to spell friendship FRIENDS
bangs inner 12 year old with a hammer
–Marriage exists to serve God and his kingdom
–Marriage and friendship exist to glorify god
–only when marriage exists for God’s glory are we able to love and be loves. So all you athiests out there, your marriages all suck, ok?
–God created marriage to be fruitful. This is why satan did not even show up until adam and eve were married.
Gee, I thought Satan didn’t show up till then because that was the first time god left them alone. Because if he’d shown up while god was still there creating Adam and Eve…. it would not have gone well for Satan.
–Satan hates the fruitfullness (snicker snicker) that can come from a couple serving God together in marriage.
–It ony takes one spouse to be friendly, it takes both spouses to be friends.
–when people talk about “falling in love” it is to avoid taking the responsibiity. Faling is an accident, and so “falling in love” is used to take some of the responsibiilty off of themselves.
–the bible tells us to guard our hearts and not follow them, because our hearts are sinful
–We don’t love with our hearts, we love through our hearts. God pours love into our hearts, and then we give it out to our spouse. So, all you non Christian married people, you don’t really love each other. (Mark didn’t say that last sentence, I added it.)
–Mark then makes a list of things you can do for your spouse. I don’t actually have any disagreement with this, except for
[quote]“my husband will not leave the house without kissing me goodbye. Sometimes I try to avoid it, but he will stand in front of my car and climb in to make sure…”[/quote]
That one strikes me as kinda creepy. The others not so much. The other suggestions involve things like leaving your spouse notes where they will see them like on their car keys or on their steering wheel, buyhing them a Dr. Pepper at the end of the week when you know they are stressed, washing up the dishes after your wife cooks a dinner, etc.
Apparently there are 3 kinds of marriage: back to back, shoulder to shoulder, and face to face.
Back to back marriage–
Me: That’s where you got each other’s backs, right? Like, in a fight you put your backs to each other and that way you can always cover your partner and shoot the enemy?
Drizz-cull, however, thinks back to back marriage is when both spouses have turned their back on one another.
Shoulder to shoulder is when the couple works together on projects like keeping the home, raising the kids, etc.
face to face marriage is when they become friends and face each other, in addition to shoulder to shoulder work.
–women tend to have more friends, and these friendships tend to be deeper. This is because men typically have friends who have interest in shared activities. Jee, what does he think women friendships are made of, kittens and rainbows and cupcakes?
Men generally know very little about their friends, because their conversations tend to be about the task at hand (ie baseball) and not about the feelings they both have.
–this is why women do things men don’t do, like going out for coffee just to talk, or having intimate conversations, etc.
Mark’s advice to wives (at least, Grace hasn’t said she’s the one talking, so I’m assuming it’s Mark) is to share an activity with your husband. Watch sports with him (starts singing sports go sports! I promise I really totally care who wins! Go team yeah!). If your man is working on a project, stay nearby to help out, or at the very least keep him company.
For a wife to be a friend to her husband requires a lot of shoulder to shoulder work, apparently. I’m still not sure what that means.
Husbands, to learn to be a good friend to your wife, learn to listen to her intimate conversations. Open up and tell your wife how you are feeling and ask how she’s doing.Keep your advice to a minimum and learn to listen and empathize.
Resist the male urge to find the problem and try to fix it. No wife wants to be a person to be fixed rather than a person to be intimate with.
Silly me, I had no idea these things were supposed to be gendered, I just thought that both of these were what friends DO regardless of whether or not they identify as male/female.
Mark says that he asked Grace to be his functional pastor. This was surprsing, not just because Mark is such a manly man who needs nobody, (er, excuse me, he, “projects a sense of complete self sufficiency”) but because neither of them believe pastors are allowed to be women, according to the bible.
Grace is Mark’s intimate friend who pastors his heart. Isn’t that special.
Life sucks sometimes, and we need to be able to have people who make it enjoyable. Ecclesiastes 9:7-9 is quoted, which says to enjoy your days with your wife.
Life is short, like a breath on a cold morning yous ee an instant before it disappears.
God gives us spouses as enjoyable friends… he expects us to have fun.
Grace talks about weekly date night, which I actually think is a good idea.
Oooooh here’s an interesting quote. Last I checked Mark and Grace Drizz-cull did not claim to be seventh day adventists, and I’m sure SDAs don’t want to claim him, so this next part is interesting.
[quote]Family night every saturday is a similar rituatl (sabbath time with the family doing various low key things.)[/quote]
Sounds kinda like what most SDA families I know do on Saturday night. Actually, the preferred saturday night activity of most SDAs I know is watching a movie. Because you couldn’t watch any non Christian movies all during the sabbath, so most families I know of picked a secular movie and watched it the minute the sun slipped below the horizon. My brother and I used to count down the minutes till our little sundown calendar said it was time, then find the fastest clock in the house –ahem. Off topic, sorry.
I’ve just never really heard a Non SDA refer to any time on saturday as “sabbath” before, so, that’s interesting to me.
Every Sunday morning Mark leaves the house at 7am and doesn’t get home till 10pm because he is preaching all day.
Wow… what does he preach ABOUT for that long? Is it like, the same sermon 5 times over? I know some churches have an early morning service and an afternoon service, but no church I’ve ever been to has services as late as 10pm. I do know of one church in my town (there’s probably more, as it’s a big college town) that has 3 sunday services, but the latest one gets out at LEAST by like, 8pm at the ABSOLUTE latest. And at least one of the services is directed to college graduates, so I know it’s not the same sermon 3 times.
Anyway, Grace gets up early to make Mark breakfast. Poor Grace. I am so not a morning person and at that point my husband could make his own damn breakfast.
That is part of how they enjoy each other’s company.
This section starts with a summary of God creating humans… 1st and 2nd chapter of genesis, not going to quote.
God made man. Then God took a rib from the man’s side and made a woman. Drizz-cull (and he’s not the only one I’ve heard preaching this) says it is
[quote]because she belongs at his side as an equal and not in front of him as feminism would teach or behind him as chauvinism would teach.[/quote]
Clearly, Drizz-cull does not understand what feminism means, or he would know that feminism is the equality of women.
Drizz-cull also says that the whole “woman came from a man’s rib” is probably why Grace likes to snuggle up to Mark’s side and feels at home there. Gag me with a spoon.
Mark says we all need human friendships in addition to friendships with God. Thank you! Yes, ugh! I can not TELL you how may times as a child I would tell an adult I ahd no friends and how much it bothered me, only to be told the only friend I needed was God. Even before I started questioning Christianity I knew that was bull and shit. I was also told this by my best friend of 10 years a lot… but she’s no longer speaking to me so fuck her anyway.
God’s answer to our need for human companionship is first a spouse, then other godly friends of our same gender.
1. I’m an aromantic asexual. If there is a god, I believe he created me this way AND I LIKE IT. If there is a god, it is the only thing I would be grateful to him for. I have no need for a spouse, but I still have a need for deep friendship. (The term “squish” is appropriate.)
2. Really? We can only have godly friends of our same gender? Because clearly it is not possible to be close friends with someone of the opposite gender without hopping in the sack together.
I’ve had at least 2 close guy friends. One ditched me because of mental issues, but he said he would’ve stopped speaking to me when he got married anyway because THOU SHALT NOT have opposite gender friends when married. The second close guy friend I have has said the same thing, he doesn’t believe in having opposite gender friends when married, but even he thinks it’s bullshit that some people think he and I can’t be close without developing a sexual and or romantic attraction. Because first off, I’m asexual and 2, I’m not his type.
So FUCK YOU Mark Driscoll for perpetuating the lies that make half my friends leave me.
Mark needed to get rid of the idea that a true man stands alone against the world. Right, because, that totally came from…. ? I don’t know any men who think that way.
God said that it is not good for man to be alone. For this reason, someone who says to their spouse “I don’t need you” is calling God a liar.
Honestly, if I was going to get married, I wouldn’t WANT the man to need me. I’d want to be with a man who is with me because he WANTS me, not because he NEEDS me. But then, I’m an aromantic asexual so what do I know. Thoughts?
Oh, and also, I seriously do NOT need a spouse, so FUCK YOU Mark Drizzle!
A devoted friend is dependable… must agree with ecclesiastes 3:4 there is a time to weep and a time to laugh.
Being a devoted friend requires wisdom form the Holy Spirit… jee, nice to know my secular friends can never be dependable. Oh my God, is this how my current only Christian friend C sees me?
Mark talks a bit about devoted verses fake friends. Fake friends leave you when your life gets tough. Funnily enough, for me personally, those people have all been (seventh day adventist) Christians. The only devoted friends I’ve had are secular. Go figure. Yet Mark says that in order to be a devoted friend you must be a christian…
[quote] Author Gary Thomas asked the vital question “what if God designed marriage to make us holy more than to make us happy?”[/quote]
I’ve heard this a LOT in marriage seminars/books that I somehow ended up having to sit/read through even though I have the exact same level of interest in marriage I did when I was 12, that level being: zero.
Apparently we don’t learn how selfish and sinful we are until we live with someone in marriage. Huh. I’d think you could learn the same things about yourself living outside of marriage together. For example, going off to college and having a room mate, or even just living with a boyfriend. Apparently neither of those are options to Marky Boy.
Husbands and wives need to accept that they are married to imperfect people and to accept each other as they are while still helping them to grow.
True friends are revealed when someone has fallen into sin. They rush to help said friend. Our spouses need this more frequently than any other friend.
A married couple msut speak the truth in love so that they both may grow to be more like Jesus…
proverbs 27:6 faithful are the wounds of a friend, but kisses of an enemy are deceitful.
A spouse who never disagrees with you is not a true friend.
This chapter still does not explain how we are supposed to sanctify our spouses but whatever.
Closing note: marriage can be overhwelming, but Mark and Grace have found that the best way to work at it is to become friends, and that over time,the rest will sort itself out.